About this ATALK
In the 17th episode of ATALKS, we delve into an enlightening conversation with Francisco Neves, Managing Partner at Stravillia Sustainability Hub.
Drawing from his rich experience in the field, Francisco sheds light on the evolving dynamics of ESG, the critical role of sustainability for businesses of all scales, and the exciting prospects of Stravillia’s recent expansion to Mozambique. Key discussion points in this episode:
- The paradigm shift of viewing competition within the ESG space as potential collaborators. Francisco emphasizes the diversity of Stravillia’s clientele, which spans from major global corporations to budding enterprises.
- Francisco’s insightful advice for SMEs embarking on their sustainability voyage. He underlines the initial need for these businesses to recognize the profound impacts they can exert on the environment, society, and the economy.
- The importance of embracing sustainability even without a fully polished strategy. Francisco reassures businesses that the essence of sustainability management lies in constant improvement and the willingness to learn.
- Discussion on the role of technological innovation in accelerating sustainability goals. Francisco elaborates on how digital tools and AI can help businesses in monitoring and enhancing their environmental and social performance.
Join us for this informative session that promises to equip you with vital knowledge and tips on steering your business towards a more sustainable future.
Transcript
You can find the full transcript of their conversation below.
| Joana Alves | Welcome to ATALKS where sustainability has a voice. At APLANET, we have created this space so that we can discuss the most important sustainability hot topics. And for that we interview relevant sustainability professionals from different sectors and geographies so that they can share their experience with us. Today, we’re delighted to have Francisco Neves with us as a guest from Portugal. To introduce our guest speaker, Francisco is an environmental engineer and a sustainability expert with more than 15 years of experience. Currently, he’s the Managing Partner of Stravillia Sustainability Hub. Additionally, he’s a board member at the Portuguese Association of Environmental Engineering and he is a Certified Sustainability Assurance Practitioner. Francisco, thank you so much for being with us here today. |
| Francisco Neves | Thank you for having me, Joana. It’s a pleasure to be here. |
| Joana | Thank you so much. It’s a pleasure to have you here. I can’t wait for all the contributions you’re going to give us because in fact you have a very long career and sustainability. You have a career with over 15 years of experience. And starting with my first question, what was the trigger that made you decide to choose this career and sustainability and to decide at a very young age to study environmental engineering? |
| Francisco | I think that’s the answer for both questions is that some of the best things that happened in my life happened by chance and I think I was just in the right place at the right moment at when I started in sustainability consultancy, I was in how do you say I’m a cross way and I had to choose the way to go forward. I was coming from a waste management company. And I was looking for a new path and a new project and I was starting and I started working at another consultancy farm here in Portugal in sustainability area. And that’s where I took my first steps in this, in this field 15 years ago in 2008. But like I said, I think that’s the most relevant things in my life happened by chance and that was one of those. The opportunity appeared and I think that was a very good match at that first project at that first company. I did some amazing projects, I met some of the people I still work with or at least colleagues, even if they are in other firms. And that was the beginning of this journey, this amazing journey. |
| Joana | I love that answer that you said that it happened by chance, but as we were just talking at the beginning before recording this. I think that things happen by chance and when also you are prepared for them and you recognize the opportunity, right? And before that you have studied environmental engineer, so you already you were already aligned with and you already have like a good basis to work in sustainability. So why did you decide to study environmental engineering at the beginning? |
| Francisco | It was… I always loved the authors. I was interested in the environmental subjects. I was a kind of an activist. I was trying to teach my parents and my brothers to simple things like separate the waste at home and things like that. It was… It might seem silly, but I always believe that’s doing the right thing at the right time. It was important. And giving the right message to the other people even if you are not followed at the first moment, someone leads to needs to lead the way forward and to give the example. And at the moment I believe that’s the environmental engineering, Engineering was the best choice for me. That’s opened, could opened a lot of doors to a lot of the subjects that I really loved at the time like I said and trying to do the right thing regarding simple things as waste management and separation and subjects related to those, but it was the best choice at the moment, Joana. |
| Joana | And I think that’s a very inspiring message for the listeners, to always do the right thing and even if there’s no one following you. It’s important to do the right thing and to be a leader because when you studied environmental engineering, it was almost 20 years ago when it was not such a very hot career. |
| Francisco | And hot subject, yes. |
| Joana | Yes, and why did you decide to begin your career working for City Hall? Because you started your career by working as an environmental engineer at the Almada City Hall. How was this experience? |
| Francisco | It was a tremendous experience because in Portugal there is the belief that the city halls are not how to say an innovative place to work at that. It’s a bureaucratic job that you don’t get to do anything interesting. And it was quite the opposite experience for me. I was working at the department, a very young department, and my, the leader of that department was always trying to push us into European projects. I had the opportunity to work in things like sustainability is sustainable procurement, green parks, green technology parks and other projects, European projects that were very interesting, we were also engaged in was the department that was in charge of putting together the European Mobility Week for the municipality of Almada and to court united the day without cars at Almada. And so I had it was, I think it was two years and a half there, but I had the opportunity to work in so many different projects with so many different teams across Europe and in the interesting projects that was a very, very… The first opportunity that I had it was that I learned a lot in that municipality and again some of the projects that I developed there, it’s still I like to put it in my CV, for example, because I’m really proud of the job that we had accomplished there as well. |
| Joana | That’s very, very interesting and for sure it was a very enriching experience and also gave you a different perspective, a broader perspective of all the different players, not just the the private companies, but also the public administration and after working for Almada City Hall, you have several projects and then you decided to become a sustainability consultant. And correct me if I’m wrong, but you work for a very well reputed one of the references in Portugal and sustainability consultancy. But then in 2009 you left that consultancy and made a very bold decision of building your own company at the time representing BSD Consulting. For those of you who don’t know, it’s an international consultancy that has presence in several countries and this was a very bold move, especially in 2009 with the supreme crisis and sustainability was not such a hot topic back then. How and why did you decide to make this move and how was this experience of building your own company? |
| Francisco | I think that’s the biggest reason is that’s first of all I felt that I was prepared also to make that move. Again, I had the opportunity to meet the right people at the right time. I was on the training in London, it was a one week training in order to get the certification, certified Sustainability Assurance professional at the time. And I met one of the partners of BSD Consulting and with the conversations that I had with him and he’s quite an inspiring character, I believe that I could make a difference here in Portugal and I could start my own project. I love the experience that I had in the other company. It was tremendous for me. It was the first step that I took in sustainability consultancy wars were there, but I felt that I needed to to make a project of my own. I had that feeling inside of me that. If I don’t, if I did not took the chance at that time to start the project that I will always regret it and I’m glad that I did it. It was like you said, it was not the best of the timings because in 2009 we were in the beginning of the crisis and it was not the best time to be talking about sustainability at that time. But again I have not do not have to regret taking that step, I would have regret it if I did not took it at the time. We had a lot of years that’s it kind of felt that you were talking alone because like I said in 2009, 10, 11 by this time it was not the most important subject for companies at all. But we made it through. We made it through those years and eventually people started listening to the Sustainability issues they started listening to and they had a lot of important movements the sustainable development goals and other issues that started putting this in the agenda of companies. And one by one we started gaining important clients and we started gaining disability in the market and it took us where we are today and quite a different company. I spent some years working alone. And that’s in the beginning of the project with just some freelancers that were beside me since the beginning. And I had at least one colleague that’s started the project with me as a freelancer and she’s still working with me today. So it’s quite long relationships in terms of working together. And right now the company is has 18 fulltime consultants working in this area plus some several freelancers. So it’s quite a different game now. |
| Joana | Incredible. And a very inspired message for potential entrepreneurs that are listening to you and that are willing to take the first step and maybe waiting for the perfect timing. And there there’s no perfect timing, so. |
| Francisco | There is no perfect timing, Joana. |
| Joana | Exactly you made… |
| Francisco | It if you feel, if you feel it inside of you that you need to make that move to try to do that project, go ahead because like I said, you will probably regret it not taking the chance, but if it doesn’t go well, we can always return and start and go work somewhere else or start a new project. I think that in Portugal we have. We don’t like to take chances and sometimes it’s not well seen. If you fail in a project it seems like you have a stamp all over you like saying loser or something like that. But we have to try it, maybe we will not succeed at the first time, but you have to keep on trying because if you do not do it, it’s you can get stuck in the project and accompany something that it’s not what’s right for you. And like I said, I think that you will regret it not taking the chance at the right time. |
| Joana | Totally agree, Francisco. And I think that like in Portugal, it is cultural almost that we are not allowed to to fail or people are afraid to fail. And sometimes they stay stuck in projects. But you never know if if you don’t risk, you never know if you’ll fail or if you will win. And failing is part of the process… Part of the game. It’s part of the game. |
| Francisco | Like you said, it’s cultural. I think that’s in the United States. It’s normal for someone to try once, twice, to bank, to go bankrupt, to start all over again and to reinvent themselves in your project. So it’s a matter of not being afraid to risk it, and if you think it’s the right project for you is if you think that you are prepared, go ahead, take the chance. |
| Joana | That’s a very, very, very inspiring message and thank you so much for this and really congratulations on your project. I think it was a very, very bold decision back in 2009, I believe it must have been very hard like to get the first clients. Back in the days, but I’m sure that nowadays it’s the opposite. The clients come to you because of the ecosystem is changing, legislation, sustainability, regulation in the European Union is… Has more requisites and more frameworks that have to that many companies have to comply with. But you did a rebranding in the meantime and now you are called Stravillia Hub. So did you change the scope or is it the same consultancy or did you have like broader areas of expertise? |
| Francisco | We are indeed increasing the areas of expertise as well where we are working at and trying to find also the what are the needs that the markets. Is facing it trying to get the best answers and to get the right people to work with us in order to provide to those services. But it was just a matter of rebranding that we did in 2020. It was the same team that was continuing the project that we started as BST Consulting and then we did the transition to Stravillia Sustainability Hub in 2020. And like I said first of all it’s just to highlight something. The calling us hub help, in the end it’s not by chance because we really want to be the hub that our clients can go to whatever are the services that they need in the field of sustainability because we either have it inside of our house or we have the right partners to work with it. We are affirmed that’s I think that we have a good relationship with I think that all of our competitors and partners, not seeing them as competitors, but most of mostly as partners, because right now the demand for sustainability services is so big. That there is the space within the markets for all of us to thrive and also for all of us to find the right niches. I think that’s the right expression because sustainability has so many different areas that we can work at. It can you were asking before. We have most of our services are related to sustainability strategy and management and also to sustainability communication. We also have for example, carbon advisory with carbon footprint calculation and development of strategies for carbon neutrality in other areas. We have also some areas that are minor at the moment for us, for example sustainable finance or social impact in human rights because like I said. We also know that we have some other companies that are more equipped to work in some of those specific areas, like for example Sustainable Finance. We know that there is a specific company that is, I would say, the reference here in Portugal to work in that specific area or if you call it the Ecosystem Services. We will know another different company that is very specialized in that specific type of project. And whenever it’s necessary, we go to them and we ask them to join us and to work together in specific clients that we might have at the moment. So also we don’t need to be afraid of our competitors and not seeing them as competitors, but as partners that can work with us in different projects because like I said, the markets has such a big demand at the moment. That’s the best thing that we can do is to work together and to try to give the best possible services to our clients. In order to help them do the right thing at the right moment as well, because if you work well in sustainability, it’s not going to be a cost for you. It’s just going to be something that will help you save money, find investors, motivate your employees and so many other different aspects that we could really mention here as some of the good thing |
| Joana | Exactly. Because collaboration is key and it’s great that you look at your competitors not as enemies but as credible players in the market that you can collaborate with if they’re more specialized in a certain area. And I think it’s with that mentality that we can make a difference and we need the contribution of all the players in collaboration so that we can reach a sustainable development and so you have different areas of expertise but you also advise companies with different dimensions and degrees of expertise in ESG, meaning, do you advise a large companies but also SME’s that are taking their first steps? |
| Francisco | Yes, we do. We have… And whenever I look at my clients list, we are very proud to be able to look at it first of all to say that we are not specialized in any specific sector of activity. And we think that this is a plus for us and not something that is working against us because we are used to looking at different sectors and to understand what are the challenges that they are facing and to help our clients face the same challenges and to take advantage of the opportunities that are appearing for that specific sector of activity. Similar to that’s we have clients that are in the top client, the top clients in the top list of companies here in Portugal that are in the stock markets, some of the companies that are in perceiving for example. But we also have clients that are of much, much smaller. And that they are feeling also the needs to start developing their own projects, to start presenting their sustainability reports, to do their carbon footprint calculations and things like that. Some of them are doing this, but on a voluntary basis because they also understand the advantages of working in the sustainable aspects of their daily business. But some of them are also being pushed by their clients. And we are also starting to see that movement. It’s not only the big companies that are involved in this type of projects because they are following into the European directives such as CSRD, for example. But we are also seeing those same companies, the big companies that are starting to push to the message into their suppliers and to ask for some of the information that they need for their own sustainability reports and to know the carbon footprint calculation, if they want to see scope three, they will need information from their suppliers. They will need information from the number of employees that they have, some of the practices that are being implemented in those smaller companies. So I think that’s this movement, movement will not stop here. We will have the companies that are being regulated right now. That are following into the European directives, those big companies will make a move and they will ask some information from their suppliers and these suppliers will ask from their suppliers. So I think that’s in a very short term we will have everyone involved in some degree in these sustainable efforts that we all need to do to accomplish some of the goals that we all face together. |
| Joana | Exactly. And being Portugal a country of SME’s and most of them are not yet obliged by the law to disclose their non financial information. But as we’re saying indirectly because they’re in the supply chain of other companies that have to comply with these requirements or because the the growing pressure of their internal and external stakeholders, they have to start. Taking the first steps in sustainability and what general advice would you give to these companies, these SMEs that are starting their journey in sustainability? What would be the main steps for a successful sustainability strategy? |
| Francisco | First of all, I would say for them to do some training with us. As we have quite experience in this area, but just aside, maybe I think that’s one of the biggest advices that I could give to those companies not to overthink it. Because I think that sometimes companies, if they’re looking to sustainability reporting for example, and I know that’s to sample the reporting, it’s not the first step because it’s going to show what you have already done. Reporting is like you normally say. It’s at the end process. First you have to start managing your sustainability topics and then you need to report on those. But sometimes companies want to have the perfect answer to everything before they are confident to show anything to their stakeholders. And probably just the most important thing is to start make the first step. It starts trying to identify what are the most relevant impacts that your organization can have, the economy and the environment and then people. Start trying to understand how those impacts can also affect you and your bottom line, How they will affect your profits, your margins and start reporting. Start making plans on how you intend to improve on a daily basis. Your the way that you are managing your environment and your energy consumption. The training that you give to your employees, the project that you developed with the communities and just starts giving the first steps and you will see that this is an ongoing process. You will never reach the perfect strategy, the perfect report, the perfect anything. But if you don’t make the first step, you will be stuck forever in this, in definition and in this doubt of how you should do it the right way. And if like I said what I said before in a on a more personal message regarding the not being afraid of giving the first step in trying different projects that you might think that is the right one for you. Companies also needs to make the first step in sustainability and to like I said okay of course that there is some things, some parts that are more relevant and I would say okay try to identify your material topics and not trying to get too technical, right now, but starts the process, it’s I think that’s the most important and you will get better every day while working at it if you have… If you need to build an agenda, sustainability agenda and then the roadmap, try to define some first simple objectives, try to work on those, try to understand where did you failed, where did you succeed. Where did it? Was it more more important for the company? What did make it the biggest difference for your company? And then on the second time that you will need to do your road map and you will develop your objectives and KPIs and to define what departments should be involved in each task. I think that they will be getting better and better at it and you will see that in no time you will have one of. You’ll be aligned with the best in class and we would like to compare with. So again, don’t be afraid to do to take the first step and to start working in this… Your sustainability agenda, in your sustainability road map, in your in presenting your report. You will be subject to criticism of course, but you will learn from permits and you will gain a lot from this experience. |
| Joana | Great message Francisco. There is no perfect timing, no perfect moment. Just start your sustainability journey wherever you are. You are one of the references and sustainability in Portugal and you give great trainings and great advisories. So it’s a good step to start with Stravillia for sure. And Francisco, last year, if I’m not mistaken, you’ve expanded your consultancy services also to Africa, more specifically in Mozambique. Why did you make this decision to expand your business overseas and why did you choose this side of the globe? |
| Francisco | First of all, in my previous experience while we were at BSD Consulting and like I said, it was an international group. We were presence, We had a strong presence in Europe. We had other offices in for example, in Spain, Switzerland, Germany and also in South America, specifically in Brazil, Chile, Ecuador and other countries. We still maintain our network in those countries. We still are in contact with our former colleagues at BSD Consulting. So we already have partners that can help us develop projects in those specific countries. But Africa was always. One of the locations where BSD was not present at the moment and we also felt the need to go there. If you look at Mozambique, it’s one of the poorest countries in the world. I think that they are in the bottom 10, the list of social developments and when we had to look at it, if that can, they can only go up and we would like to help them in that specific journey. It’s a very poor country but it also has some incredible wealth within it. Some of the things that they are been working at the moment are areas where the sustainability needs to be in place in order to prevent negative impacts. I’m thinking, for example, they are now exploring natural gas and petrol, for example at the north of Mozambique. This is an area where you need to be very careful not to compromise the environmental aspect of sustainability in those projects and also needs to make sure that the wealth that is being created will help the country transform over time. And not being dependent in fossil fuels, for example, because now I think that this country will need to take advantage of the natural wealth that they have at the moment, but they need to use it to make the right transition as soon as possible. So this is some of the challenges that the country is facing. Apart from that you have a lot of, or normal and typical industry. Police that are working there, engineering and construction, there are a lot of things to do in Muslim being still telecommunications, banking for sure and those are some of the sectors of activity where that we are exploring right now. We have been in contact with companies from those sectors of activity and we have already presented our first proposals and hopefully we’ll start our first project there soon. We are still in discussion, but we are hopeful that 2023 will be the year that we will start our first project in Mozambique. But the apart from all of this, the challenges that the country is facing and the help that they will need to make the right transition and not get stuck into just fossil fuels for example. And to take advantage of this to make a transformation in the country again, I think it was the right opportunity, but to have the right people. In the right place, in the right moment and we started the project with two persons in Mozambique that were already there. One of them and the one of our managers that is working in the in Mozambique was there with her family and she already had some expertise that was quite relevant for sustainability consultancy and we were delighted to take the opportunity to to start the project the in Mozambique with her, because like I said again, it was the right person at the right moment and that could push the project because one thing is to be here in the very big distance for Mozambique. But I think it’s impossible to make a project succeed if you don’t have someone there, living. This situation in Maputo, but to know the the country, to know the companies, to make the right contacts and to be able to give the local support because you can develop many things at the distance but especially when you are starting in this in this area and Mozambique is giving the first steps in this on this. You will need local support, so having the right place there, the right place, the right person there to start the project was key for us to make this decision. |
| Joana | And it’s great that you made that decision and took that initiative to share your knowledge from all your experience from your advisory in Europe and share it and advise a third world country and a country that is facing a lot of problems and to help them making this sustainable transition, because the regulation is the sustainability regulation is increasing in the European Union, but we cannot forget all the third world countries that are facing many challenges and don’t have as many resources as we have. So it’s a great endeavor again, Francisco, this has been very, very, very inspiring. I could continue this conversation for much longer and but to and on, I would like to ask you one questions that we always ask our guests: Who would you like to see here interviewed at ATALKS and why? |
| Francisco | I would say, and I’m going back to something that I was mentioning before. We have the opportunity to be working with some incredible people in other companies that will that can be our partners in some of the projects that we are developing. So I’m going to suggest for you to talk with Nuno Gaspar Oliveira from NBI, Natural Business Intelligence. They have a great team. Nuno is a great guy as well. He’s very knowledgeable of most of most of sustainability issues, but specifically in the area of expertise of NBE, which is the solutions, I need your help Joana, I’m stuck here. |
| Joana | You can say it in Portuguese and I’ll translate it, no. |
| Francisco | Problem I’m stuck here in the…. |
| Joana | Ecosystem services, yeah. Like more related to biodiversity, right? |
| Francisco | But Nuno is an expert in this area. He has been an expert. He’s been working at this. I think that I first met Nuno in back in 2008. While I was starting this journey for myself, I was giving my first steps in sustainability. Noon was working at the different company at the time. Our paths have crossed along this years but. Was always in my radar. I think he is a great professional. He’s very knowledgeable and I think that would be a great guest for your next ATALK. So I would definitely suggest for you to speak with the Nuno because he’s a very interesting person and like I said, very knowledgeable of his area of expertise. |
| Joana | Thank you so much, Francisco. I just took notes and for sure, I will invite him for sure. He will have great contributions. And Francisco, thank you so much. It was great to have you here. Thank you so much for sharing your experience. You already have a long journey in sustainability and you shared some very positive and inspiring messages. So thank you so much. |
| Francisco | Thank you, Joana. |
| Joana | And for everyone who’s listening, I hope you have enjoyed it and see you in the next ATALK. Bye bye in town. |
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